What happens when data centres outpace infrastructure?

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Nexus, Publish By GHD.


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Where ideas connect.


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Welcome back,my name is Tai Hollingsbee,
and in today's episode


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we'll be diving into


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how infrastructure constraints are driving
innovation in data science projects.


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And to join us in this conversation, we,
including some of the leaders


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who are in the middle of this data
transformation play.


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Hello, Hawks.


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Hello, Sam. And hello, Andrew.


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Hello. Nice to be here.


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Superb. So, a couple of points.


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First off, that we are all participants


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in the transforming global data landscape,


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but we are working in different parts
of the project lifecycle.


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We're working in different countries,
working at different scales.


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And we're also working with a range
of different clients across the market.


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But the thing that's common,
I think, for all of us


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is this insatiable demand for compute
and processing power, right,


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which is manifesting itself
in, I'll probably call it


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like a flood of data center projects
that's happening around the world.


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But the clear thing that we are all seeing
is that the infrastructure


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can't keep up.


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And just the other day,
I was speaking to a client


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and they were saying
they're on a seven year


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wait list to get their power turned on
for their data center.


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Now, in that context, these
kind of projects just can't exist, right?


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So my observation has been
what happens when a smart, dynamic,


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super innovative
industry is faced with probably


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what is viewed
as boring, easily solvable problems.


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And my observation
is that they break rules.


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And I think those kind of rules
that they break in the context,


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what we're talking about here
is behind the meter.


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So Sam, I'm going to go to you first,
which is in the context


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of what I've just shared with you,


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what we're talking about,
like in your world and in your experience,


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what does behind the meter innovation
mean in practice?


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Yeah, sure.


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It's groups and companies
finding a solution to one of the bigger


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bottlenecks
of developing data centers at the moment.


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And it behind the meter is


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these groups are finding the solution
in generating their own electricity


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without transporting it
into the grid first.


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So effectively
they're bypassing all of the bureaucracy,


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the tangible physical barriers
of transmitting that energy.


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And they're, they're generating


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it themselves through multiple,
methods of generation.


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So diesel generation, renewable energy
with, solar and batteries and alternative


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energy, you know, funding stranded
hydro or, other baseload energy sources.


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Yeah.


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So it sounds like the idea of like


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an energy island,
a self-sufficient energy center.


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Yeah. You're right.


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They're internalizing the power generation


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so that they don't have to rely
on an external sense.


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And I think in your context,


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Andrew, is the clients in the market
that you're involved in.


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Have you seen how the business model
has evolved as a result


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of effectively looking inwards
to solve an outwards problem?


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Yeah.


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Look, I think it's quite fascinating
to see how both the industry


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and the businesses themselves are evolving
to sort of meet these challenges.


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And it's across a few different fronts.


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You know, probably


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the first one is through
private investment, which is sort of


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what Sam was talking about there,
where there's sort of,


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you know, into the local infrastructure
to support the data centers.


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So we've seen examples of private equity
investing in onsite


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water and energy generation,
so that off grid solutions are available


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for data centers and otherwise
through technological innovation.


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We've just seen Helion Energy
commence construction on a nuclear fusion,


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not nuclear fission,
but nuclear fusion plant.


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And they've only got one customer
for that,


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which is Microsoft in its data centers.


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So, certainly technology innovation
is changing the business model as well.


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And then I think the other level is
is really at government.


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And, you know, in order to sort of remove


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some of the red tape
and facilitate the approvals process


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in Australia and New South Wales
has created the Investment


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Delivery Authority, which is really just
sort of turbo charged the business


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investment in New South Wales and got $80
million in innovation funding this year.


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Further afield in Thailand,
we've seen the government invest.


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I think it's $15.4
billion US dollars in AI strategy.


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They've got an AI governance
practice center,


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which is being built in collaboration
with Unesco to, sort of provide,


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you know, policy exchanges, ethics
frameworks, sort of like sandboxes


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that let investors experiment


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without all the risks of,
regulatory approvals and things like that.


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So lots of different ways
that it's being tackled


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that it's it's quite fascinating
to see the different approaches.


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And it's super fast as.


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All right. Hawke's you're in London right
now. That's correct. Yes.


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And you and in for partners
work around the world.


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But what kind of things are you seeing
in the market around behind the meter,


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sort of hunger or at least,
what kind of solutions?


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They're trying to push through to get them
turning on the data centers faster?


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If you step back a little bit,
if you look at the challenge


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we have as an industry,
there's a lot of growth coming.


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And if you look at the projections,
the growth is in the order of 70


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to 200GW by 2030,
depending on who's research you believe.


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But it's still a significant amount.


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And prefab which is what we're focused on.


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And offsite manufacturing
is going to be part of the solution.


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But there's some real problems.


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I mean, power availability is the first
problem, as you guys have mentioned.


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And behind the meter.


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So so some of that labor scarcity is
the second,


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you know, we're seeing around the world
that you can't find


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these skills to build these data centers.


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And the third thing is schedule certainty


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in terms of being able to deliver
to data centers when you need them.


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And so what we've found
is by taking a different approach,


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this industrialized, standardized approach
with a preferred model,


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what we do is we do 80% of the work
in the factory and 20% on site,


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and that's 30 souls for that
labor scarcity issue.


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And then from a schedule perspective,
McKinsey recently


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released some research called
The Next Big Arenas, a competition.


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Essentially the the 18 industries


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that are going to be trillion
dollar markets, by 2035, 2040.


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And prefab and modular was one of them.


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Their research
showed that you can do construction


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about 20 to 50% faster
based on a prefab model.


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And that's what we're seeing as well
with the projects we're doing.


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So they're really awesome acute problems
to be able to solve, to be able to get


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this growth and get it online for this
AI growth and this wave that's coming.


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And so we're focused on a couple of those.


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And I think behind the meter solutions
to your point.


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You know being able to find grid
power is getting more and more difficult.


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And so, you know, if you look at things
like batteries, onsite generation,


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fuel cells, other kinds of generation,
everything is on the table right now


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to be able to deliver this growth.


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And because the business environment
has changed around that, right,


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because things are moving so fast
and specifically in the AI space,


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and I mean, I'm going to point to you
again, Heights, because,


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I mean, we can attempt to try to talk
about what might happen in ten years time.


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But frankly, in next five years
time, that compute


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and processing power
is is growing at an enormous rate.


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So being ready and being future fit
and having a data center


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that enables that infrastructure
to be catered for in the future.


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Can you talk about how prefabrication
and the methodology that you have in


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for partners is, is supporting that?


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How does that enable
the upgradeable data center, for example?


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Yeah.


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And so the upgradeable data center
is a concept that we released recently.


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And it's really about


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how do you get data centers to evolve
at the pace of technology change.


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If you look at Nvidia's GPU roadmap,
they're releasing new chips every year.


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And data centers historically have been
ten, 15, 20 year assets.


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And so in the future,
what's going to happen


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is the constant is going to be power.


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That's the power that's available on site,


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whether that's through grid
or on site generated.


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And what you're trying to do
is you're trying


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to get the maximum return
and revenue from that power.


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And the only way to do that really
is to deploy the latest GPUs from Nvidia


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and then have a data center
that's flexible, that evolves


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and is upgradable
at the same pace of technology change.


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And that's exactly
what our upgradeable data center


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concept is about is how do we evolve
with the chip roadmap to be able to enable


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the sort of high sustainable returns
for that power?


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Oh for sure.


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And you used the word sustainable.


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You know, there's a
I think there's an ongoing


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debate, tension between sustainability
and data centers and the like.


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But I think what you have in your, high
precision, prefabricated, super


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well designed product offer
is actually synergetic to,


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I think what you do some with ocean bit
now you literally offshore data centers.


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So like a data center on a ship right.


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Yeah.


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That's exactly a very succinct summary of,
of our class one concept,


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which is, developing a data center
with a completely behind the meter power


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source and, deploying these in, locations
of high demand


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and high access to the international,
subsea communication network.


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So we we're leveraging these, already


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established points into, the countries,
and we can put renewable energy,


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removing the data centers from consuming
that land resource, that water resource


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and that electrical resource
that can be put to other industries


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and the communities
and removing them from that constriction


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at the core of our concept is a long term,
sustainable solution


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of removing data centers
from those land bound restrictions.


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And with ocean bit and what you're doing,
and I suppose your thermodynamic approach


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with your solution is to utilize
the ocean as a medium for heat transfer.


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Right.


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Well, that's it's
the biggest natural battery on Earth.


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So, the technology that we're using
is, ocean thermal energy conversion.


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And, it in very simple terms,
we're extracting energy


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from that temperature difference
from deep cold water and warm water.


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But as a waste product,
we have a significant amount of excess


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cooling water


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that is utilized to cool the data center
at no extra consumption of energy.


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So when you think about your future
projects,


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you think about what
Sam and his business is doing.


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Do you see any overlapping in businesses
like yours and what Sam and that sort of,


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I would say, describe
as the edge of innovation,


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you know, looking at alternative cooling
methodologies and things like that.


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How do you see that playing into changes
that might be coming up for data


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center design?


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Yeah, I think what Sam is doing
is really at the bleeding edge


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as we grow the data center estates
globally


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to be able to hit this huge growth
AI right now, it's a race.


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And what you're seeing in this race is


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everybody is trying to power up
GPUs as quickly as possible


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with whatever power source they can find,
because there's a scarcity there.


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I think as we go further towards 2030,


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there'll be some reflection on how we use
the most sustainable sources.


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And energy generation is not the easiest
to switch on in terms of renewable power


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or sustainable power.


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So I think it would be
a slower transition.


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But I think we need to keep focused
on the energy source conversation


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and make sure over time, you know, once
this race has played out a little bit,


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that we do keep driving towards
some of these sustainable sources


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and look at synergies
between the generation side


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and how the data center is built
and how also the chips use the power.


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And I think if you start looking across
the whole stack, you'll start to find ways


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to be able to meet all of those objectives
around being able to deliver AI compute


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training inference in data centers
that are flexible


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using the most sustainable
and low carbon power sources.


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Andrew.


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Commentary from you about the market and
its appetite for this kind of thinking,


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like actual investor appetite to implement
something that's different.


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Yeah, and I think one of the things
we haven't touched on as well


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is social license and the social license
that these companies need to be able


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to deliver data centers in prime
real estate locations.


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So, you know, I think
when I think of data centers is three


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finite resources,
really valuable resources that are used,


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significantly,
which is land, water and energy.


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One of the unique things about Ocean View


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is that it requires
none of those off the grid anyway.


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So it uses water and energy,
but not from the traditional sources.


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But I think, you know,
when we look at sustainability as well,


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is the social license
required to build data centers,


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which at the moment in certain areas
don't have the greatest reputation


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because it takes land, power and water
from residents and from other communities.


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So, you know, I think the opportunity
for investors is through innovation


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to really lead the way and show
what can be given back to communities.


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I mean, my personal view
is that these aren't


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just pieces of infrastructure,
they're pieces of social infrastructure.


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And that in the future,
when we're building social infrastructure


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like hospitals, train stations, schools,
we should also be considering data centers


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as part of the conversation,
because the data centers will be powering


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and enabling all of those other bits
of social infrastructure.


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And so alongside
social infrastructure is social license.


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And that's where I think the opportunity
for investors in the market


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is to really lead the way
through some of the innovative solutions


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that we're discussing here today,


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to really build that social license
with the community.


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Yeah, I think that's a very important
human aspect of the gargantuan change


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that the data center brings to cities
and communities and hugs Star Wars.


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I can see a saber in the corner
thinking about the future.


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Let's think about next five,


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ten years and you've got investors
knocking on your door.


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If you could do something really a quick,
short, sharp tip to investors around


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being ready for change is around
infrastructure and what they could do


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to be smarter, to enable that data centers
to turn on faster


00;13;06;21 - 00;13;08;17
in the current climate.
What are some of your tips?


00;13;09;26 - 00;13;10;06
I think


00;13;10;06 - 00;13;13;27
the biggest thing to look at is
how do you make the largest possible


00;13;14;00 - 00;13;16;04
sustainable return over the next five,
ten years?


00;13;16;07 - 00;13;19;25
And I think history has built
data centers in one way.


00;13;19;27 - 00;13;21;24
I think the future
is going to be very different.


00;13;21;27 - 00;13;24;09
And I think Andrew is right
where he's mentioned.


00;13;24;09 - 00;13;27;05
You need to look at
what's the impact on local communities.


00;13;27;05 - 00;13;30;06
And I think some of these data centers
can actually have a positive impact


00;13;30;09 - 00;13;31;05
on local communities.


00;13;31;05 - 00;13;34;02
Although they take some resources,
they can become more net positive


00;13;34;05 - 00;13;37;14
where they provide resources
and inference and knowledge


00;13;37;17 - 00;13;40;15
and intelligence to the community,
which I think is, you know,


00;13;40;17 - 00;13;43;21
differentiating and will generate
huge amounts of productivity.


00;13;44;05 - 00;13;47;03
The other thing I think, also is if you do
look at this from a sustainability


00;13;47;06 - 00;13;49;16
perspective, is
you can tap into more capital pools


00;13;49;19 - 00;13;53;22
for deployment of capital into the space,
not just digital infrastructure


00;13;53;29 - 00;13;55;05
or I infrastructure.


00;13;55;05 - 00;13;56;22
There's also the ESG funds.


00;13;56;22 - 00;13;59;23
And I think if you look at the way
capital is going to change


00;13;59;26 - 00;14;04;06
and the amount of dollars that goes into
these ESG pools is going to grow,


00;14;04;09 - 00;14;07;27
that will give the industry more access
to capital to be able to deliver


00;14;08;00 - 00;14;09;05
real impact.


00;14;09;08 - 00;14;13;02
Right now, everyone is trying to get there
really quickly and as fast as possible.


00;14;13;13 - 00;14;15;19
We're really early in this AI race.


00;14;15;19 - 00;14;17;03
And I think folks are trying


00;14;17;03 - 00;14;20;03
to really become
the market leader in general intelligence,


00;14;20;09 - 00;14;23;28
but they'll also be industry models
as well, specific to companies,


00;14;24;01 - 00;14;25;02
but also industries.


00;14;25;02 - 00;14;28;21
And I think it's really exciting
what I can enable in the future.


00;14;29;01 - 00;14;32;29
And I think we have to sort of enable
that as an industry from a data center


00;14;33;02 - 00;14;36;22
perspective around the world
and really participate in the value


00;14;36;25 - 00;14;38;05
that comes out of it as well.


00;14;38;05 - 00;14;40;16
And so that's not just value
in terms of intelligence,


00;14;40;16 - 00;14;41;26
but also for the community


00;14;41;26 - 00;14;44;24
and be able to get returns for investors
at the same time.


00;14;44;27 - 00;14;47;26
Yeah, I think you bang on with that
Hawks, enabler.


00;14;47;29 - 00;14;51;06
I think we as participants in the industry
are all enablers around this.


00;14;51;09 - 00;14;54;21
And to do it with social license, to do it
with, due


00;14;54;24 - 00;14;57;26
care to the environment
is also part of our expertise.


00;14;57;29 - 00;15;01;28
And that should be utilized to its maximum
for the benefit of our communities.


00;15;02;14 - 00;15;06;00
And if I could wrap up with you, Sam,
what would your tip be to


00;15;06;16 - 00;15;07;14
maybe your next investor?


00;15;07;14 - 00;15;08;00
Right.


00;15;08;03 - 00;15;11;04
Well, how does the industry
or the investment cycle need to


00;15;11;08 - 00;15;15;19
maybe be adaptable to meeting the demand
that's currently out there in the market?


00;15;16;10 - 00;15;20;01
Well, I'm going to take a bit from Andrew
in a bit from Hawks in this one because,


00;15;20;12 - 00;15;24;11
I think it's the fast
part of the race has kicked off.


00;15;24;14 - 00;15;28;26
And it's the long term
concept of what a data center brings


00;15;29;00 - 00;15;34;07
to not only the dollar
and the back pocket, but, you know,


00;15;34;09 - 00;15;36;06
these are significant developments


00;15;36;06 - 00;15;39;27
that are going to get bigger
and draw more and consume more.


00;15;40;00 - 00;15;43;03
But if we look at them as almost
an infrastructure


00;15;43;06 - 00;15;46;06
requirement
because the demand is there and it's


00;15;46;10 - 00;15;50;06
next to the dollar, it's on everyone's
phone, it's everyone's access and utility.


00;15;50;17 - 00;15;53;11
And so the development
and the concept of what


00;15;53;11 - 00;15;56;11
a data center can bring,
it's more than just the data portion.


00;15;56;22 - 00;16;00;20
If it's the behind the meter development,
then it's releasing megawatts.


00;16;00;23 - 00;16;02;24
That would either be sent
to the data center


00;16;02;24 - 00;16;05;09
to some other industry or community.


00;16;05;12 - 00;16;08;29
It would stimulate jobs
that could to stimulate a growth


00;16;09;02 - 00;16;10;20
of industry around a location.


00;16;10;20 - 00;16;14;20
So it could be used as a tool
to actually develop


00;16;14;25 - 00;16;18;02
more and assist
in the whole community's growth.


00;16;18;17 - 00;16;21;07
So instead of just consuming,
there's the ability


00;16;21;07 - 00;16;24;07
to, bring value
to that environment around it.


00;16;24;13 - 00;16;28;01
And that happens through the sustainable
kind of development.


00;16;28;04 - 00;16;31;06
It happens through prefabrication,
having better construction


00;16;31;09 - 00;16;34;21
methods, having better efficiencies
in the entire cycle


00;16;34;29 - 00;16;37;15
so that it doesn't
just become an eyesore of you


00;16;37;15 - 00;16;40;15
lose your social license
to continue to operate you.


00;16;40;18 - 00;16;44;02
You bring value
not only through information and industry,


00;16;44;05 - 00;16;47;05
but through, kind of ancillary services.


00;16;47;10 - 00;16;48;09
Thank you. Sam. That's great.


00;16;48;11 - 00;16;52;06
What I've heard today in our conversation
is probably summarized


00;16;52;09 - 00;16;56;15
in like a holistic design systems
thinking approach to data centers, right?


00;16;56;18 - 00;17;00;20
Not just the tech bit,
but the human bit, the environmental bit.


00;17;01;01 - 00;17;04;08
Thinking about how can we make use
of the ocean as a thermal medium.


00;17;04;23 - 00;17;08;02
And I suppose being bold and brave
to the very real physical constraints


00;17;08;05 - 00;17;11;07
around infrastructure and the provisions
of that for data center projects.


00;17;11;24 - 00;17;15;29
So thank you for your time today,
Sam Hawks, Andrew, fantastic conversation.


00;17;16;05 - 00;17;19;16
And for the next episode,
Andrew will be talking about


00;17;19;22 - 00;17;24;10
the role of AI and in regional places
and how the constraints and physical,


00;17;24;13 - 00;17;26;20
parameters of those projects
might be different


00;17;26;23 - 00;17;28;15
to the things
that we've been talking about today.


00;17;28;15 - 00;17;32;06
But there's a whole big world out there
with many problems and solutions that,


00;17;32;20 - 00;17;34;12
here for us to uncover.


00;17;34;15 - 00;17;36;02
Thanks again to Hok, Sam and Andrew.


00;17;36;02 - 00;17;38;06
And, stay tuned for our next episode.


00;17;38;09 - 00;17;40;08
Thanks, Tom. Thanks. So thank you.


00;17;45;04 - 00;17;48;04
Brought to you by Nexus, Publish By GHD.


00;17;48;12 - 00;17;49;16
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